Editor’s Note: We are so glad you to share the transcript of an interview we had with Leigh-Ann Brisbin way back in 2021. We talked truth about sacrificial love with Leigh-Ann, and she offered us so many insights to deeply consider. We hope you will glean some great things, as well!
Leigh-Ann is a Licensed Clinical Counselor, and the author of My True Reflection: Freedom from Eating Disorders. She is a graduate of Ashland Theological Seminary and has worked in both clinical and ministerial settings, counseling, teaching, leading and training others. Leigh-Ann currently serves as a Director of Women’s Ministry overseeing leadership and spiritual growth of women, prayer, women’s events and counseling. She is passionate about the power of prayer, and the work of the Holy Spirit to help others overcome overwhelming obstacles in their spiritual, emotional and relational areas of life. She believes in the impact integration of faith and counseling can bring within the family, the church and the community. Leigh-Ann also speaks, writes and trains counselors, leaders in churches, parachurches, and other organizations in spiritual formation, integration of faith and counseling and effective leadership. Join us today as Leigh-Ann helps us focus on loving our spouses in a way that is intentional, respectful, and reflective of the Trinity.
TSS: Leigh-Ann, why do you advise us to be intentional in our marriages?
LEIGH-ANN: Well, I think what happens sometimes in marriages is that we get into a slow fade of complacency, and we start to think about what we need. We think about our own wants and needs and desires. We get caught up in that when we’re not being intentional and so instead of thinking about what we can give, we think about what we can get, and if we are not getting it, it’s hard for us to give. So, we get caught up in a cycle of wanting our own needs to be met without giving to our spouses and so we get caught in a slow fade. Then, the divide begins to get greater and greater and greater between us. Without being intentional, the flesh takes over, we become selfish, and the slow fade begins to happen.
TSS: Wow, Leigh-Ann! There are definite benefits to being intentional in our marriages! But can you share with us how we can be more intentional?
LEIGH-ANN: Yes. Tim Keller talks about the Biblical purpose of marriage is to help our spouse become their future glory self through self-sacrificial love. And often times we’re trying to fix or control our spouse, hoping that they will change so that our marriage will change. We stop being intentional about what we can do to give rather than looking at what we need to get. So, Tim Keller says that the Biblical purpose of marriage is to be self-sacrificial. So what does that look like when you break that down? How do I be self-sacrificial? How do I recognize my need to look deeper into the marriage instead of at behaviors, and look at the heart of my spouse and understand the needs that he has and move into that place of being able to fulfill those needs for him the best that I can being led by the Holy Spirit.
It’s also recognizing that my marriage is not going to be perfect, that we are two broken beings that have come together to become one flesh. When I can recognize that my husband cannot fulfill all of my needs as Christ can, I can be in a place of recognition that grace and forgiveness need to lead in my marriage. So, being intentional with grace and forgiveness and being intentional with trying to meet my husband’s needs in self-sacrificial love, that’s what helps him become his future glory self, not trying to fix, control, or manage. And there are some really intentional ways that we can do that.
Effective communication is one of those ways. The ways that I am talking to my spouse. The ways that I am validating him before I am moving into challenging him or sharing with him the things that I need or want, but validating him and really seeing him and hearing his heart as well. And then recognizing that we can come to compromises fairly easily when we see each other’s hearts is effective communication. It’s really vital. And a lot of times what we are saying and doing is on the surface. It’s not what’s underneath the surface. So we can be intentional with asking questions in our effective communication to get to what someone is really thinking or feeling rather than just looking at surface level words or behaviors but really being intentional with seeing our husband’s hearts. So effective communication is one way.
Another way kind of goes with that we are two broken beings. Recognizing that we all have a back story that affects us: the ways that we have been raised, the things that we have walked through, all of that goes into play to become one. We have to recognize that our back stories are going to bleed into our present stories. Sometimes we need to recognize that we are doing something that is triggering our husband and we might be causing hurt. Or he might be being triggered by something that doesn’t really have to do with the moment but by ways that he has been hurt in the past. So again, really just trying to listen to his heart and know what he is thinking and feeling and asking those questions is very intentional without just assuming or being offended easily.
And then there is really just I think, there can be beauty in the brokenness in that. If I’m looking at the mess of marriage and I am looking beyond the surface and I’m trying to effectively communicate with my husband and understand his heart and be intentional in that way then there can be growth and beauty in that brokenness and it doesn’t have to be cause of contention or that we are misrepresenting each other. It can be something where we grow, we learn, we come together, we understand each other. Those are some deeper ways at looking at the heart that we can be intentional.
TSS: You have shared in the past about the “Magic Five.” Could you explain that a little bit to our audience?
LEIGH-ANN: The Magic Five is a great way to have some real intentional tips each day on how I can love my spouse well and be intentional in my marriage. Because effective communication and seeing each other’s hearts is a deeper kind of concept, but there are some ways that we can be intentional in the little ways each day. So, John Gottman is a marriage researcher and psychologist and he’s kind of world renowned for his marriage counseling and research. He has found that one of the ways that we avoid the slow fade is to be turning toward our spouse in little ways each day. He’s found that it helps usurp the slow fade and move into a different trajectory. So he has come up with this beautiful thing that is so easy to remember, hard to do, but easy to remember. And he calls it the Magic Five. The magic five hours in a week. How can we look at being intentional with quality time for five hours in a whole week? And he starts with partings. He says that when we wake up in the morning, before we go our separate ways, can we just be intentional for five minutes? And so I sort of tagged on and can we pray in that parting too? Pray for one another and encourage one another before we go. But in those partings, ask one another about what’s on your agenda for the day and encourage each other before we leave each other and then lift up a prayer together.
Then he says, reunions. Those are just five to 15 minutes, and they can be up to a longer period of time. I like those to be longer. Those are when we come back together at the end of the day and we want to get the follow-up. Asking our spouse to tell us how their day went and really hearing each other about what went on throughout the day, how we can continue to pray, or to say I am really happy that the prayer was answered in that way. He also says that we should have times of admiration and times of affection. The times that we are building each other up, we’re intentional with our words, we are thinking about ways that we can pull out those characteristics that we first fell in love with. I tag onto that looking for the characteristics of Christ and reminding our spouse that we see that in them. And so admiration is building each other up. This world is so good at tearing down. We can protect that within marriage when we are admiring each other and respecting and sharing with each other what we see in them.
Next, we have times of affection. Physical affection. We are made for connection. That can be as simple as coming up behind our spouse and putting our hand on their back and saying, “I am so glad that you are here.” Even if there’s no words to it but just a physical gesture, that’s a way to connect, all the way to being intentional with hugs and kisses and physical intimacy, and taking time to connect because we are made for connection.
Lastly, he has something called love mapping. Taking time to date or a longer chunk of time in the week, around two hours in each week and talk about dreams and hopes and fears and just asking questions to learn more about the other person. Often times we are not doing these intentional things each day and each week. We are missing that and we are getting caught up in the everyday tasks of life. But when you can put these things into practice it’s just small changes that make a huge difference in being intentional in your marriage, and you start to see a different climate happen. Instead of a slow fade, you’re moving into a trajectory of closeness and connection and you’re moving toward one another more and more each day, and that’s a beautiful place to be. We can be in the mess of the imperfection at the same time that we are creating beauty through our communication and seeing each other’s hearts and being intentional with these quality times throughout the week.
TSS: Leigh-Ann, some of our viewers may find themselves in a tough marital situation where being intentional seems like a lost cause. What words of wisdom and encouragement would you have for them?
LEIGH-ANN: That’s a good question. You know, like I said, marriage is messy. Part of what I love to do is to work with couples because I am an objective, set-apart person, and I can kind of see through the hurt to what’s underneath the hurt objectively. You know, I haven’t been hurt so I can kind of step back and see where people have been hurting each other and then speak into that a little bit and start to tease out what’s really going on. So, if your marriage is in a place where you’re really hurting one another, the things that’s important to do is a little bit of what I said at the beginning. Look at your spouse’s heart. Look past behaviors and words and try to understand where the hurt is coming from.
A lot of times we can be in a heightened, escalated moment with our spouse and what can de-escalate is just a phrase of, “It sounds like you’re really hurting. Do you want to talk about it?” Or, “Have I hurt you?” And I’m going to create a safe space for that person to share where I’m not going to come back with a defense or some sort of escalated remark but just creating a safe space to be able to go to those harder places and not feel like we have to defend or be offended by something that our spouse is saying to us that maybe we need to hear a little of what’s going on inside of them. Maybe it’s somewhat warranted, maybe it’s all the way warranted. But there is something that our spouse is feeling in that moment that we (are tempted) to just pass over or feel like we need to defend ourselves. We want to move into it rather than away from it.
I think the other thing is when we talk about some of those practical things, I think why Gottman says this can be a really effective climate change for marriages of moving into those Magic Five, is by encouraging people to just to begin somewhere. If your marriage is in a really bad space, try to just change the climate, or change the temperature that can change the climate. So, do something that is reaching out to show actively that you love the other person and keep trying. Keep trying to do that because the more that you recognize the need to build your husband up and the need to recognize that he may be hurting, too, the need to pray over him and for him, and to encourage him in what he has going on when he leaves that room or leaves the house that day, that there’s a whole lot of world that he’s going to be hit with as well as you. But if you can lean into that and show him that you care about that and that you want to be the one who wants to build him up when the whole rest of the world might be tearing him down. You’ll see a climate change happen. So even when there is a lot of mess going on there are some things that you can do to help change that climate. Try something. Begin somewhere. And commit to those partings and reunions and touch points throughout the day where you send a text saying, “I’m just thinking about you.” And see how that starts to bring down barriers. And then really look at the heart and move into that.
TSS: Leigh-Ann, this has been so helpful! Thank you so much! As you know, we are just days away from celebrating Valentine’s Day. Do you have any fun ideas about how we can really celebrate our spouse and our marriages on this holiday of love?
LEIGH-ANN: Yeah! I think there are two things that popped in my mind when you asked that question. I think the first one is it’s a time of COVID so we have to be creative this Valentines’ Day. I have encouraged a lot of couples to try to be creative. What does it look like to have a picnic on our bed? What does it look like to play games or try a new game together? So, I think you have to be creative. To piggybank off of that, and this is a little bit deeper heart connect, is to really celebrate the uniqueness of one another. In dating and those Magic Five, those intentional times when you’re asking your spouse about their hopes and their dreams and their fears and the things that interest them, that’s something you can do this Valentine’s Day. How can I celebrate my spouse’s uniqueness? How can I move into his world or him into mine? I always encourage couples to take turns planning dates. Early on in our marriage, I learned how to play frisbee golf because that’s one of the dates my husband planned. He learned to like chick flicks and going to the theater. We got into each other’s worlds and we developed a love for it as well, or at least we tolerated it for the moment because we realized our spouse loved it.
TSS: Those are great tips, Leigh-Ann! Thank you! Friends, we pray that this time with Leigh-Ann has been a real encouragement to you! Keep checking our Instagram and Facebook pages for more tips on loving well in this month of love. In the meantime, Leigh-Ann, how can our viewers connect with you?
LEIGH-ANN: They can connect with me through Free to Be Ministries, through our website, our [email protected] or email me at [email protected]. That’s the best way!
TSS: Thanks again, so much, Leigh-Ann! Friends, we have a lot more to share with you in the weeks ahead, so please keep following us on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel! Invite your friends to join us, as well! In the meantime, may your week be sublime, free above the fray!
— The Sublime Soiree (c) February 2021
